Like I wrote about a bit in my Berlin Porn Film Festival diary post, I was on a panel called “Good Porn for Good Girls” that featured some female porn directors. When I first found out about the panel, I was a little apprehensive – the idea of me being a good girl is kind of funny (to say the least), and it’s also annoying that despite the fact that I’ve never called The Bi Apple “porn for women,” other people enthusiastically slap that label on it. I’m a woman, and a self-identified feminist. Ergo, my porn must be for women. Really, I find this tiresome – I made The Bi Apple for people who want to see a slightly different vision of sexual interaction, people who are queer or pansexual or just plain curious about people and bodies and fucking. Women are of course invited – but so is everyone.
The “porn for women” genre is useful and revolutionary in many ways, and I know there is a need to have a way to describe a genre if it is to sell, even if there isn’t a clear and agreed upon definition for it (see: alt porn). And it’s not that I entirely reject the label of “feminist pornographer” – but although I embrace feminism(s), it doesn’t always love me back. And sometimes it gets a bit overblown and simplified – like this summer, when I was featured in Chapel Hill’s Independent Weekly, with the headline “Audacia Ray spreads the gospel of feminist Web porn.”
Anyway, as I wrote about in an article for Eros Zine that I turned in yesterday (and which will be up on the site later this month), the panel quickly devolved into an argument about blowjobs. A few audience members questioned the prevalence of blowjobs in Erika Lust’s films and the extent to which giving a blowjob is a feminist act. Erika quickly said that she personally likes giving blowjobs, which is why they are in her films so much, and she personally is a feminist, so do the math. It definitely seemed like the crowd didn’t buy this explanation. I’ve seen this happen too when people ask “Why do the men in your movie ejaculate on the women’s bodies?” and my answer “I asked the female performers where they wanted the cum, so it’s all up to them where it’s deposited” is often greeted with skepticism. This kind of skepticism is the stuff of “false consciousness” – or the belief that if only we (being Erika, me, and female porn performers who like getting cum on them) were radicalized to better understand our oppression, we would know that cocksucking and money shots are Bad For Women.
There’s been some bloggy follow up to the panel from Petra Joy and Erika Lust. Petra’s post (which doesn’t have a permalink so you have to scroll for it) is titled “The “she-pornographers” agree to disagree” – which is basically accurate, but she gets a little heavy-handed with the idea of What is Feminist. Here’s a bit of her post (her words in italics) that both Erika and Ms Naughty have nabbed for their posts, and I’ll break it down a bit:
Our tastes on what we find sexy in the bedroom or on film differ….
This is totally key, and the importance of this statement shouldn’t (but does) get lost.
I would like to empower women and this is why I choose to focus on women receiving pleasure rather than just giving it, and I also prefer to show orgasms in different ways such as showing the lover’s faces, rather than ending every scene with a male cum-shot over the woman’s body.
I like to empower women too, but as much as I know porn is about the end product and it’s presence in the marketplace, the people I’m most interested in empowering are the performers, who are putting their bodies and sexualities out there for public consumption. I’m totally down with showing orgasms in different ways (hence the presence of lots of long and medium shots in my movie), but I don’t think any one kind of image -or any one person- holds the key to what women receiving pleasure look like, or even what “receiving pleasure” means for Women.
If we produce films and call them “female friendly†or “feminist†yet the actual sexual content still focuses mainly on male pleasure and copies a commercially successful mainstream porn formula, then the powerful words that should have a very deep meaning are being mocked and hijacked as a marketing gimmick.
As someone who is trying to make a living doing what I do, I don’t see anything inherently wrong with marketing gimmicks. Although there are a lot of shitty things about the “commercially successful mainstream porn formula,” there is a reason it’s a formula – it makes money. I really do believe that people buy what’s out there because there isn’t an alternative, but I do think the alternative needs to at least make a nod to how things are done so it’s still marketable and comprehensible to a broader audience. Also, in the bigger scheme of things – there are only so many sex acts and so many camera angles that can exist.
Feminism is committed to equality of the sexes, so surely “feminist porn†should show women as equals to men rather than as subservient beings. A woman receiving head, a woman fucking a guy with a strap-on, a guy tasting his own cum and also to feature female ejaculation – those techniques that show a woman in control might be “feminist pornâ€. If you want to show cum on a woman’s face that’s fine but don’t call it feminist.
Erika has a pretty awesome and biting response to all this:
Isn’t it funny? We have a new fundamentalist movement going on here: the Church of the Pure Feminist Porn Producers, and they are declaring that certain sexual practices that me and other women across the world happen to like, are a sin, and that we should be expelled from their pure circle. Well, guess what? I do not want to be part of a club that tells me what it’s ok to do in my bedroom or to portrait in my films, because last time I checked that was called censorship.
To me, making feminist porn is not about what is actually shown on screen and much more about what is happening on the production end of things. This is very clearly an expression of my years working in the sex industry and working for sex workers’ rights, but like Petra says in the beginning of this paragraph, “our tastes on what we find sexy in the bedroom or on film differ.” We can have a whole argument about the nurture and nature of “taste” – but I don’t think liking or not liking specific acts can make or break a feminist.
I don’t care if porn shows a woman masturbating by herself (like in many of the Abby Winters photo sets and videos), a woman fucking a guy with a strap-on (like in The Bi Apple, a woman enthusiastically sucking cock (like in Erika’s films), or a pregnant woman getting fucked up the ass with a baseball bat (like in Belladonna’s Fucking Girls Again). What I do care about is: does that performer want to be there? Is the director/producer respecting her needs and paying her appropriately? Did she get blindsided by requests for acts she doesn’t want to do?
The answers to those questions determine whether or not the porn is feminist, sex-positive, and ethical for me, not what is happening on screen.
11:55 am
Audacia:
I think that you’ve made an excelent statement about what we are trying to do. I agree 100% with your words.
1:54 pm
The whole notion that a woman fucking a man up the ass is feminist, while a man fucking a woman up the ass is misogynist takes me back to Intro to Women’s Studies.
We had an assignment to find a feminist ad and a misogynist ad. One girl said that an Altoids ad featuring a sexy looking woman was misogynist, while one featuring a sexy looking man was feminist.
I took a different tack, and found an ad with a fully clothed woman that I found misogynist, and one with a near naked woman that I found feminist.
Really, so much is in intent and underlying message, not the actual acts.
6:25 pm
[...] Waking Vixen » Feminist porn wars (new and improved!) (not really) “To me, making feminist porn is not about what is actually shown on screen and much more about what is happening on the production end of things.” (tags: porn feminism awesome work sexwork) [...]
8:36 pm
this is a great post – thank you.
totally agreed about the importance of the people who risk the most in porn.
women who are skeptical about whether porn (in general) is “feminist” often seem to forget that porn’s ultimate (and in my opinion, only) purpose is for jerking off (in general).
calling any human sexual act misogynist sounds utterly ridiculous and hypocritical coming from women who want to be valued fully as human beings.
watching a hetero blow job might offend some women personally (which truly frightens me), but it’s a human sexual act, and if it brings pleasure to *anyone*, it has value. kinda the same point that most branches of feminism preach.
i don’t know how you manage to keep your cool in the face of what i see as scary sexual ignorance. you are one brave dame, lady.
1:50 am
hey i think that all sex is good sex as long as both or all people enjoy themselves
9:33 am
[...] I linked to Dacia’s latest post about “feminist porn” in my del.cio.us links yesterday, but I had such a “yes yes YES that’s IT!” reaction to it that I feel compelled to quote liberally here… To me, making feminist porn is not about what is actually shown on screen and much more about what is happening on the production end of things. This is very clearly an expression of my years working in the sex industry and working for sex workers’ rights, but like Petra says in the beginning of this paragraph, “our tastes on what we find sexy in the bedroom or on film differ.” We can have a whole argument about the nurture and nature of “taste” – but I don’t think liking or not liking specific acts can make or break a feminist. [...]
6:33 pm
Thanks for the link and your great comments Dacia. I’m away from home at the moment so I haven’t been able to participate in this debate. I will say briefly that I appreciate what you and Erika have to say while also supporting Petra’s viewpoint. The money shot CAN be feminist, but so often it’s not, which I think is part of her point. Striving to make an alternative women’s pornography can often involve leaving things out. I don’t like the money shot so I leave it out of my porn. That’s not to say it’s not legitimate elsewhere.
Dammit, I want to write an essay but I have to go. :) Cheers
1:22 am
Ms. Naughty wrote: “The money shot CAN be feminist, but so often it’s not, which I think is part of her point.”
But then should the times when the money shot IS feminist be painted with the same brush as when it isn’t? I don’t think so. I strongly agree that feminist porn is in the production rather than the end product. I’ve been told that certain pieces of literature are “womens’ erotica”, when it is nothing of the sort: it is what society EXPECTS womens’ erotica to be.
We need to get rid of the expectations for what is or isn’t in feminist porn, because like sexism has done in the past, it puts us in well-defined boxes. Being a feminist means to have the freedom to be in or out of the box.
9:58 pm
[...] Petra made the comment while discussing her appearance at the Berlin Film Festival in a seminar called Good Porn for Good Girls. Her fellow panelists, Audacia Ray and Erika Lust, weren’t so impressed with this. Audacia made this post on her blog, and Erika wrote a long, angry post in defence of blowjobs. [...]
11:22 am
[...] Anyway, Ms. Naughty, just back from bushwalking and wine-guzzling has added her two cents to the porn/blowjob/feminism debate in a post entitled Boring Blowjobs and Feminist Facials. This is the part that jumped out at me: “Can a facial ever be “feministâ€Â? My answer is yes. As always, context is everything.” [...]
10:40 am
[...] I wrote about this issue on my blog Waking Vixen, in a post titled Feminist Porn Wars (new and improved!) (not really) My post is a response to a post Erika Lust wrote: Can’t a feminist enjoy a blowjob?? And her post was sparked by something Petra Joy wrote on her blog (which doesn’t have permalinks for the posts) [...]
1:41 am
[...] Still, the wars continue, whether I blog about them or not. Case in point: this account from Audacia Ray, about some flack she took for allowing oppressive patriarchal semen to touch women’s bodies in a porn movie she made: I was on a panel called “Good Porn for Good Girls†that featured some female porn directors. When I first found out about the panel, I was a little apprehensive – the idea of me being a good girl is kind of funny (to say the least), and it’s also annoying that despite the fact that I’ve never called The Bi Apple “porn for women,†other people enthusiastically slap that label on it. I’m a woman, and a self-identified feminist. Ergo, my porn must be for women. [...]
6:02 pm
[...] seien oder nicht. Protagonistinnen des Streits waren die Filmemacherinnen Erika Lust und Petra Joy; Audacia Ray, Bloggerin und selbst Pornofilmerin, fasst die Diskussion zusammen und bezieht Stellung. Lust vs. [...]
12:46 am
I think you’re right about a lot of things, but I cant understand how getting cummed straight on the face isn’t anything but degrading to a girl… It makes me grimace just to watch.
First off, I’ve NEVER seen or heard of a girl ejaculating on a MALE’S face. I only see the guys shooting cum at the girl’s face in all those thousands of porn videos. So that makes it pretty obvious to me that its not exactly equal treatment, and it definitely doesn’t look respectful towards the girl at all. It also really makes the girl look ridiculously stupid and trashy, as if she was really that ignorant to what was going on and had absolutely no dignity and demand for more respectful treatment.
I seriously want to know how could it be even remotely enjoyable to get on your knees and let some guy aim his cock at you, and squirt until your face is dripping with slimy cum? It looks like one of the most demeaning things you could do to a woman.
Do these girls just IGNORE the fact thats it looks extremely degrading and try to act sexy anyway with their cum plastered faces? I think someone should take a photo of them while this is happening and show them later how dumb they appear.
And do feminists honestly think this is fair and honorable treatment of women in porn films?
I hope not… If anyone dared to suggest giving me cum facial, I would promptly smack some reality across their face. Its disappointing to see so many other women act exactly the way we don’t want to be portrayed: stupid, ignorant, and unable to possess enough dignity and respect for themselves. Watching the trashy way they can behave just for money or loads of attention almost makes me ashamed to be someone from this sex.
Come on! I’m sure we can all do A LOT better than that.